by Stephen Rodgers

This is the hub post for Richard Shin’s nine-part series of interviews regarding the San Jose church plant. From this page, you can easily find and refer to all posts in this series.

All posts in the Church Plant Interviews series:

• Pastor JR (Part 1)
• Pastor JR (Part 2)
• Pastor John (Part 1)
• Pastor John (Part 2)
• Pastor Patrick (Part 1)
• Pastor Patrick (Part 2)
• Follow-up Interviews – Pastor John
• Follow-up Interviews – Pastor Patrick
• Follow-up Interviews – Pastor JR

by Richard Shin

Editor’s Note: This is a follow-up series to the interviews that Richard Shin did in the spring of 2010. For the original interview with Pastor JR, please see here and here.

How are you doing?

I’m doing very well. I say this because my understanding of the gospel has deepened further. I’ve come to a much deeper understanding of what it means to really place my hope in Christ – both in who He is and what He did for me – and find my joy in Him alone. I’ve always believed this, but through my years as a Christian I had really struggled with at times pressuring myself to perform, and placing my hope in how well I think I did. But lately, I’ve really learned to wake up every morning and rejoice in the reality that I stand approved and loved before God because of what Christ did for me, and that God is using me for His kingdom purposes. I feel much less pressured nowadays than I did earlier in my faith, and yet much more empowered at the same time. It’s a joy to walk with Christ daily.

You recently became a father of a very cute little boy, Jayden. How does it feel to be a parent?

Honestly, I thank God so much for giving me the privilege of fatherhood to Jayden. It’s the most exciting, enjoyable, and rewarding ministry after marriage. My blood pressure has definitely dropped. Many had told me how hard it would be, but few told me how enjoyable it would be, haha. Ever since I was a child, I had always looked forward to the day when God would grant me the opportunity to raise a child. After becoming a Christian – and particularly after going into ministry – the desire was heightened. I’ve always wanted to be involved in this kind of lifetime discipleship. It was strange how, as soon as he was born, all these paternal instincts started to kick in! I absolutely love being a father to him, and work together with Kathy to raise Him in the Lord. That said, my relationship with God has not changed in its essence. I don’t feel godlier or more qualified by any means – and definitely don’t really feel older. From my perspective, I’m still a child myself before God.

From what I remember, you had quite a year planned out for you. When we conducted the interview, you had just gotten married and were still taking classes at The Master’s Seminary. You were planning to move up north with the church plant (not wait until you were done with school) and have a baby, while also traveling weekly to LA to finish up seminary. How were able to manage all that?

Well, things really turned out much better than I anticipated. Because we had prayed about it, we were confident that God would carry us through it. And He did. I really credit Kathy for helping make all of this work. Not only did she never complain (if anything, she was a lot less worried than I was about the whole thing, as usual), but she also came alongside and supported me and encouraged me tremendously. She would pack me a whole bag of food – ziplocked into several bags to divide them up for each meal – so that I could have home-cooked food during school. That’s just one of the many ways, haha! Also, there were some friends down in L.A. – Wayne & Melanie Hu – who were extremely supportive and hospitable to me, and invited me to stay at their place during the weeks I was in school. As far as the commuting, it was actually much easier to commute by plane than by car – both from an energetic perspective as well as from a time perspective. There’s a big difference between driving at 3 in the morning for two hours and riding a plane at 6 in the morning for one hour with free coffee and a traveling buddy (I had a classmate who did the same commute with me through the semester, and we synched all of our plane rides). That was a huge encouragement as well. But in the end, I took things one week at a time, and the Lord was so gracious to carrying us through it. I give all the credit to Him, and not to myself. It really was not as bad as it sounded (and it also helped that I got to use the Master’s College gym for free, haha!). Kathy and I actually agreed that our marriage was strengthened throughout it all. And obviously, Jayden is alive and healthy – a testament to God’s provision and care for our family.

You mentioned before that you always wanted to carry out the Vision of LBC, to plant churches. I also heard through the grapevine that you desire to plant a church in the Philippines. Can you share some of your thought process?

I’ve always had the desire to plant a church in the Philippines and Hawaii (that’s what I put in my TMS application) since I’m from those places. That said, ultimately, my desire is for God to be glorified through people from all nations worshipping Him, and not to fulfill my own visions or agenda. Psalm 67 resonates in my heart quite a bit, especially on Sunday mornings. While it helps that I know the language and the culture and have experience working with the people in the Philippines and Hawaii, in all honesty I would help LBCSJ carry out the vision of church planting anywhere – whether it be the Philippines, Taiwan, Chile, France, Seattle, or any other location on the planet where God-glorifying and Bible-teaching churches are needed. Sometimes, while going on a Sunday morning run before church, I’ll find myself praying for the churches in mainland China and Africa – even though I’ve never been to either. I honestly believe that God has called me to a work, not necessarily location. More and more, I’ve really learned to see San Jose as a mission field, and have joyfully engaged myself in evangelizing to non-believers here and discipling those who are in the faith, and I’m very content to do that. It’s not so much where I go that I’m ambitious for, as much as it is what I’ll be doing there. I’ll always want to be involved in the work of disciplship, preaching the Word, and training men for the work of ministry. That’s why I’m so happy to be ministering here in San Jose – because I get to do just that here. In that sense, I don’t see San Jose as a stepping stone to the Philippines or any other place. I see it as my current mission field, and I’m taking to make disciples here seriously and diligently. And boy, it’s a lot of fun!

Has the planting of LBCSJ changed your desire for church planting at all?

It has not changed it as much as it has strengthened it. I have a much stronger desire now to be involved in the church-planting ministry as I ever did, especially as I’m seeing just how God is being honored through the way Pastor John has led and shepherded our church here. He’s doing an incredible job of being faithful to God, His Word, and his own convictions, and the community is responding to it. I really want to learn to do what he does and bring it to places where the gospel is needed. It’s hard – no doubt – but it has only wet my appetite to see more of this happen.

What are some ways you have been encouraged by the church planting process?

I’ve come to understand God’s faithfulness in a deeper way throughout this whole church-planting endeavor. It became very clear to me, after seeing some of the issues that the church all had to tackle – whether it be relational issues or financial hardships – that God really had to be the one who accomplish the endeavor for His own glory. Seeing how He did that really helped me understand that ultimately, a church exits, grows, and is sustained not because of the people’s ability, but because of the God they serve who is committed to magnifying Himself in a location. Observing the disciple-making process take place in the lives of the San Jose locals has really convinced me that God Himself has a heart for this place. That they have both come to our church, been encouraged by the ministry, and have begun contributing to it has been a huge encouragement.

It’s also been really exciting to see the type of faithful ministry in San Diego continue on to San Jose. The giftedness that the SD team members brought with them are really building up the body here. It’s been really encouraging to see how Pastor John has not changed – how he’s still committed to the MVP, and how the locals in SJ have begun to adopt that same mindset. The neat thing about church-planting is that it forces everyone to contribute what they have to the overall church ministry. As one of the pastors, I’ve had the privilege to really both observe and discern the kinds of gifts that these guys have, and it’s so encouraging watch. I’ve always loved diversity and variety, and I’ve really experienced the benefit of that personally from the team members. I have a tremendous amount of respect for our individual members, and it’s been such a privilege to minister alongside them.

Anything you want to say to the folks at LBCSD? =)

I seriously miss you guys. There are many of you who I pray for all the time – if someone were to look at my prayer journal, they may think that I was still part of the SD church. My heart still goes out to you guys there. I’m really thankful for the times that I’ve had to interact with you either in person or over the phone or e-mail since moving up to SJ.

Remember to stay faithful to Pastor Patrick. God has gifted you with a tremendously humble pastor who does his homework and is willing to do anything to strengthen the church there. Support him, encourage him, and do the work alongside him.

How can we be praying for you?

Continue to pray that I would grow in wisdom and mature as a pastor, and stay rooted in the gospel at all times. Pray for my family, that we would faithfully serve the Lord as a unit, and really be a contribution to the overall ministry of the church.

by Richard Shin

Editor’s Note: This is a follow-up series to the interviews that Richard Shin did in the spring of 2010.  For the original interview with Pastor Patrick, please see here and here.

How are you doing?

Things have been going really well. Thank you! =)

How has God been faithful to you in the last year?

God has been tremendously faithful to me in many ways. Besides remaining true to Himself and His promises (e.g. I am still saved), He has really helped me grow significantly as a believer and a pastor. Ministry has been tremendously encouraging, and that always keeps a pastor motivated to keep going even if he is tired. For example, this past weekend was one of the busier weekends of my life, but the all-church banquet was such a huge blessing that it hardly seemed like a difficult weekend at all. The church also has been a great blessing and joy, and a huge source of encouragement. The faithful service of the members and leadership has been humbling. It truly is humbling to understand that others look to me for leadership, guidance, and counsel. I certainly feel my shortcomings and am forced to depend more on the Lord.

How have you been challenged in this role as Senior Pastor that you weren’t previously as an Associate Pastor?

I’ve honestly never really been a fan of the titles “Senior Pastor” and “Associate Pastor,” but I understand the intent behind the question. The pace has definitely picked up now that I am filling this role at LBC. As an associate, there is not as much to think about. It’s not that it’s easy, but it does not demand as much. I think any associate pastor would generally agree. Serving as the senior pastor, I have been involved in some ministry situations and counseling opportunities that have really stretched me and I have learned a great deal through them. Through it all, I can clearly see God training me up for future ministry and helping me develop my thought processes and convictions.

You went from pastoring the collegians to overseeing the singles and married folks. How has that transition been?

The transition has been good. It has been good to see the consistency on Sundays of the group that comes out to Grace Life. I feel the study has been beneficial, but the fellowship has been particularly good. The format of that time is such that I don’t simply talk the whole time. Instead, we mix in group discussions and interaction. I believe that has really helped because I know how difficult it can be to listen to someone speak for two services in a row. We recently took a break from our study in Mark to cover Peacemaking for Families, by Ken Sande. We found it to be a very practical study and helpful to address everyday situations in the home.

As for the singles ministry, things have been good as well. I wish I could devote more time and energy into this ministry because I really believe it is important to help young believers in their decision making during this stage of their lives. Singles are in the process of developing their career paths, figuring out who they want to marry, and learning to be committed to the church with a more demanding schedule than they had in college. Meeting on Friday evenings has been challenging because of the lack of consistency. Too often Bible study has had to be cancelled because of conflicting all-church events. Still, the times we have been able to meet have been sweet. Our study through the book of Colossians has been helpful and challenging. Currently I am thinking through how I can better minister to the singles. I don’t want to simply maintain a Bible study for the sake of having a structured program. I believe it is better for the overall health of the ministry and church to address people and not just promote programs.

I imagine your workload has increased somewhat significantly since you became the Senior Pastor (or has it?). How have you been able to manage your time?

This has been difficult, but it has not been impossible. There are certain non-negotiable principles you keep in mind. For instance, I need to make sure I spend a good amount of time with my family. But with the increased workload, we have become more creative in how we do this. Sometimes they will come by the office to have lunch together and maybe spend the afternoon at the church. With the various church events that take place, Christine and I have learned to be flexible with Eden’s feeding, nap, and sleep schedule. But we find it a great joy to minister together and we love being at church with our church family. We also are encouraged that Eden loves it so much as well. Eden often cries when it is time to go home even when she is exhausted!

How can we be praying for you?

There are so many things to pray for, it would be impossible to list them all. I think the biggest thing would be for perseverance in what I am called to be and do as a leader in the church. Any pastor can have a season of faithful ministry, but I’m certain it really requires great resolve, unswerving commitment, and most of all deep dependence on God for a lifetime of faithful service. You can also pray for our family. As Eden grows, we don’t want her to grow embittered against the church or pastoral ministry. I’m sure it will take a lot of love, wisdom, patience, and strength to lead our family well.

by Richard Shin

Editor’s Note: This is a follow-up series to the interviews that Richard Shin did in the spring of 2010.  For the original interview with Pastor John, please see here and here.

Have you found any decent Mexican joints in the Bay Area?

I actually went to a place recently that wasn’t too bad. I have come to the conclusion that there is just a NorCal thing that is different regarding Mexican food so instead of comparing and complaining, I’ll just be patient, keep trying, and when I visit San Diego, I’ll grab some if I can but it is no longer a life or death issue.

Generally speaking, how do you feel the transition went?

Overall, I can’t help but just be so thankful to God for the transition. I was expecting things to be a bit challenging, especially for my family but Angela and the girls have shown a remarkable attitude and have even commented from time to time how they are happy to be up here. They of course still miss family and friends and especially Jenna when she went off to college but overall it has been a positive transition. Having some familiar faces with the church plant team definitely helped but getting to know new people has been great and we already see how God has provided new relationships to mingle with the old.

The church planting team did quite a bit of preparing prior to the actual plant, even after you guys moved up. Do you feel the preparations were adequate?

I don’t know if they were necessarily adequate as it was kind of hard to know how we could plan for such a monumental move. But through the team meetings, going over the book “The Church and the Surprising Offense of God’s Love,” team building trips, and meals together, I think the main thing was just the building up of the relationships that was key.

A year ago, you mentioned some concerns/fears you had with the church plant and the overall transition. Some of them were: practical concerns (e.g. having a meeting place, jobs for members, etc.), conflicts within and outside the church, and LBCSD’s reception of the transition leadership. Can you share some reflective thoughts on these concerns?

I guess there will always be concerns as things have been kind of dynamic and the unexpected has happened. Regarding facilities, we found a great situation with a community center, but by the end of the year, through some strange circumstances, we lost the place and were forced to look for a new site. At first it was a bit disappointing but realizing that things like this were going to happen, we kind of had to move along and just keep our faces looking forward. We found a local high school just down the street and it definitely was an answer to prayer. But we are still looking for a more suitable place as we have started to expand a bit.

Jobs have been an interesting thing as at one point almost the whole team had found jobs, then some lost some jobs and some are still looking for jobs since. But overall it’s been encouraging to see the attitudes of those who have been facing this challenge and I’m thankful to see that they are persevering the best they can.

Conflicts will always happen, both inside and outside the church. So we decided to go over The Peacemaker by Ken Sande for our Friday Night Bible Studies and that has been really good as many of the newer people have shared they have never heard anything like this. There have already been some conflicts that have taken place, some actually kind of discouraging but focusing on peacemaking has been helpful in dealing with them. So we are thankful that we are studying this right now. Regarding things with other churches, we have had some situations where it was actually quite sad but then other churches and other pastors have reached out to us as well and we are so thankful for their support and prayers. So overall we are very thankful for the greater community that is starting to build between other churches.

As for the transition in San Diego, I have heard encouraging things about how many have come to really support Pastor Patrick and his leadership. I know that it was a concern for him to have to follow me as we are quite different, not to mention that he is younger. But as I shared when we had our installation of Pastor Patrick, he has been such a faithful servant and minister over all the years and I can’t think of anyone better suited to take over the responsibilities of leadership at the church. He also has the support of the elders and I think it’s pretty evident that while there is always room to grow, can you imagine some total stranger coming in and try to lead the church? There is no comparison. I’ve also heard that there have been a few who have not maybe been the most encouraging in light of the transition – I just pray that God would remind them to have a gospel-centered heart toward Pastor Patrick and be gracious and even more supportive. I told Pastor Patrick before I left to expect that there would be those who would not always say the most encouraging things, but it’s not just because he is younger. I was older than most of the members and they would say discouraging things to me and about me as well so it’s not just because of the age issue. It’s just a heart issue and at the same time it is an issue of sanctification, to learn and grow even through being challenged in those ways. So overall I am thankful to see that the church in San Diego has continued to move forward and grow in different ways and for that God receives much glory!

What are some similarities and differences between what you expected versus what actually happened?

I think what I expected was that I wasn’t sure what to expect but the one thing that I could expect was the unexpected. That being said, I told the team during preparation to be ready for some members of the team to step down (to date five out of the original thirty adults stepped down) and to some degree it was bit discouraging and deflating. But one thing that we prayed for but didn’t know what to expect were the people that God was going to bring in San Jose. So while we were down to 25 from San Diego, as of May 3, we have 37 members and another 11 members ready to be welcomed. We have already seen several individuals come to know Christ and have had a number of people who were looking for a church decide to consistently attend, though they are not members yet. So it really has been the relationships that were the main issue that related to expectations and I can say that God has really been gracious to us in helping us both work through the losses as well as the new additions.

What are some ways you have been growing in the past year? (Feel free to talk about the church plant specifically or in life generally)

I think there are a few lessons that I have been learning along the way, especially in the past year as we transitioned to life in the Bay Area.

Keep Preaching the Gospel

The primacy of the gospel and the centrality of the gospel in ministry continues to become more and more of a conviction in how we need to relate what we do, both to unbelievers and believers. We have seen several people already get saved as we have been preaching the gospel on Sundays, Fridays, and even with our new College Fellowship at San Jose State. We also have been encouraging those who are believers to preach the gospel continually to themselves so that they live in light of the cross and remember to relate to each other because of the grace we have experienced through Christ.

Trellis and the Vine

Remembering that people are more important than programs, we have had to challenge everyone to make ministry centered on gospel growth instead of program growth. We are all learning, myself included, what it means to prayerfully proclaim God’s truth and to share the reality of how we are taking what we learn and passing it on to others through the sanctifying process of dealing with sin and pursuing Christ. We have been challenged to be humble, transparent, vulnerable, yet at the same time hopeful, encouraging, and taking initiative to build relationships without having to wait for some kind of formal role or structure. It is inevitable that we will have some kind of structures to help provide some basic order and organization. But it has been tremendously encouraging to see that through the messy process of building relationships, we have already seen people come to know Christ, get baptized, and show such an enthusiasm to grow and participate in the life of the church that we can’t help but thank God for His faithfulness in these ways.

Peacemaker

As mentioned earlier, we have been going through “The Peacemaker” by Ken Sande on Friday nights and it has been a wonderful and amazing time learning to resolve conflicts in a God-glorifying way. As our membership commitment includes the Peacemaker Pledge, we are building on that by seeking to build a culture of peacemaking that would be modeled by the leadership and practiced by everyone. While some of us have heard these principles multiple times, I don’t think we could ever hear it enough. The love of Christ is going to be manifested particularly in how we learn to forgive one another and resolve our conflicts so I think it is imperative, especially at the beginning stages of the church to really emphasize this foundational priority. It has been neat to hear people share how they are already passing it on to their family members, friends, and other fellow believers. It is even challenging some to practice peacemaking in their secular environments, whether in school or at work. The emphasis on the gospel in the revised and updated edition especially makes it a more powerful tool for each member of the church to utilize in their own personal spiritual growth as well as in helping edify and build up the congregation. There is an anticipating of tests and challenges that we know will come our way, but God-willing we will continue to build a deep foundation of peacemaking that will help us not only weather the storms but to grow stronger in our trust in God as well

Love them like Jesus

The last message I left with the church in San Diego was the series from John 13:34-35, to love one another. I picked up from there when we first moved to San Jose and it has been a foundational principle for our ministry. God has already opened up opportunities for counseling, encouraging, supporting those who are unbelievers, those who are in difficult situations, and those who have had bad church experiences. The love of Christ truly is a fragrant aroma when practiced by a church congregation. While we are not perfect of course, it has been a blessing to see many of the church members minister to each other, pray for each other, get to know one another, and serve in various ways. Angela and I recently shared with each other how much we just love being with our church family as it has been great to get to know them better and better each week. Since we host the Friday night bible study at our home, many stick around afterward for quite some time, eating refreshments, talking about the message, playing Monopoly Deal and other games. After church on Sundays, we have to vacate the meeting room right at 12pm but we see so many congregate outside and welcome newcomers and just interact with one another. We have a single mom attending who shared that this was the first time she felt welcomed at a church. We have had a bunch of collegians from San Jose State and a few local community colleges come and they have been so excited to be a part of the church that they come pretty much to everything they can come to, no matter how many days a week. We have a few new families coming too and we are expecting two more babies so the family is really growing! It really does feel like a family and while we know the initial stages of a churchplant can be kind of a honeymoon feeling, we continue to see the love for Christ and one another expand and we are thankful.

Anything you want to share with your extended church family in San Diego?

Thank you for your prayers and support! More and more we realize how incredible it is to have a church family that supports us and stands behind us. So many of you have come to visit since we moved up here that it is like a regular occurrence. There were over 50 that came to the inaugural service back in January and others commented that they had never seen such a thing before, that people would be willing to travel so far to support a church plant. Each time we do visit San Diego, we are reminded that the love of Christ truly has been shown in such amazing ways and we look forward to seeing what God will continue to do in San Diego as well as how we can partner together in the future. I can say that we truly love you and thank God for every remembrance of you (Philippians 1:3).

How can we be praying for you?

Please pray for us to be faithful to the MVP, to the Peacemaker Pledge, to welcome all who come, to boldly proclaim the gospel, to build Christ-honoring relationships with other churches, to reach out to the college campuses in our area, to minister to the families that are coming and to provide a place where parents can entrust their children to be shown gospel truth. Pray for a sensitivity to the needs of our single adults, to promote healthy God-honoring relationships that nurture true fellowship and edification. Pray for leadership to develop so that we would have a committed elder board that would shepherd the church and pastors that will faithfully preach the Word and lead the congregation to Christ. Pray for our joint mission trip with LBC San Diego to the Czech Republic and the future development of international missions work. Pray that we would encourage other pastors and churches in our area who are discouraged and downcast and be a loving partner in the gospel ministry. Pray that we would really make disciples in a way that truly represents Christ and to instill a passion to love God and people that would lead to God allowing us one day to plant a church in the near future.

by Richard Shin

Lord willing, you will be the head of LBCSD. Let’s imagine Pastor John won’t read this. What would you like to do differently?

I would like to preach through the Book of John and preach it slowly. Haha… I know John really wants to finish the Book of John. I’m actually surprised that he has kept up the pace and gone through this far. I didn’t think he would be able to do it. There’s so much to preach in the Book of John. And I know it’s torturing him; there’s so much in the Book of John. But I think it will be a good thing for us, Lord willing, to go through the book.

What would I do differently? Hm…I mean, in seminary, they always warn you if you ever take over another ministry to be careful of changing everything. Like I said, people don’t like change. And sometimes it comes across as “I know better.” And I know that’s not the case.

But I think to a certain degree, change will be necessary just given the people that we’re losing and all of that. I’m sure people will step up and fill in the gaps too.

What would I change…? I’ve joked around about losing the tie on Sundays. But that might be my youthfulness coming out.

Let’s say you stepped into the building of Lighthouse one Sunday morning in ten years. What would you like to see happen?

Sure. I’m going to steal this one from Pastor MacArthur because he just celebrated forty years. I don’t know if this is true because I don’t go to Grace. But MacArthur said that the series that he gave during his first year at Grace Church was the series he gave in his 40th year. Meaning that the principles that he committed to at the outset never changed, they never turned to the left or the right, they kept right down the road in terms of what they were committed to. They wanted a high view of God, they wanted a high view of His Word. Everything that became the pillars for the church that are built on Biblical principles, they’ve committed to over that long a span of time. And that’s remarkable for a church. Given all the fads and trends that have come and gone, to not have gone the course of those things. There is a lot of temptation to do that. If every church looks a certain way, and you don’t, it doesn’t look good for you. And I think that’s one thing I’ve really come to appreciate at Grace Church. It’s that unwavering commitment to Biblical doctrine.

I would love to do that same thing. And that’s something I planned on doing as soon as the church plant leaves, to teach a series on “What are the foundations of Lighthouse? What are things that are non-negotiable? What are the things that we really want to build this ministry on?” I would love to do that series again in ten years, and we haven’t turned to the right or the left. That would be sweet. That would be great.

If you were to ever plant a church yourself. Where would you like to go?

San Jose. Haha, I’m just kidding. I would say the only place in the world that has particularly drawn us that we’ve seen a great need, and along with that, a heart to be there, was Argentina. There’s already a strong church with whom we work with and to partner with in our work out there, but one thing that’s been of concern is the lack of theological training that is available there. And to have been seminary-trained, and to be able to go out there and help other pastors would be just an amazing work. There’s a tremendous need. If the Lord would work it out that we could do that someday, that would be awesome. While right now, I think it would be helpful and better if I had some years of ministry under my belt. Some of these pastors have been serving there for years, and here I am coming up on year one on being senior pastor… I don’t think I’ll have a lot to say. To be able to relate to them, it’ll be hard.

Also, related to that, I’ve always been taught that a pastor should anchor himself to a ministry. So many pastors… I think the average is that pastors tend to stick around three years or something like that before they move on. And a lot of pastors treat ministry as a stepping stone to greater things. And that’s never been my desire. I’ve told people this too, Christine and I are not making plans to leave any time soon. We would like to anchor ourselves here and be here for a significant time. I think that’s important for the members to see that. And I think it’s helpful for the church as a whole. And this won’t be like a three years and out of kind of thing… unless I die or Jesus comes back. Hallelujah!

What’s something people don’t know about you?

Um…I’m exceptionally charming?

You mean, people don’t know that about you?! Hm. Let me rephrase. What are some things people don’t know about you that might help us understand you better in terms of your ministry?

Haha! Here’s one. I feel like people already… you get what you see. I talk a lot more than I probably should. And because of that, I think I expose everything inside. I’m a lot more comfortable in front of people than I am one-on-one or in small groups or things like that. Not to say I’m not willing to do all that. Obviously it comes with the territory, and that’s something I need to do. If I had a choice between leading a small group, and teaching a Sunday school class, I would teach Sunday school class ten out of ten.

I mean, I enjoy the one-on-one and small group times, but when I am teaching or giving a message, I really get that sense that this is what I’m supposed to do. And I think that’s why when I preach, I smile so often. I really, really enjoy preaching. It’s one of my favorite things to do. I love talking about God, I love talking about His Word, I love seeing people’s eyes widen when they hear something they’ve never heard before or when they learn something new, I love the feedback I get when people tell me they’ve learned something that day, they’re growing or they got saved. It’s what keeps me going. I really enjoy teaching. I don’t know… maybe people already knew that.

How can we as a congregation encourage you in the upcoming year? And how can we pray for you?

I don’t know…keep doing what you’re doing? Christine and I have been so blessed. What church sends their pastor to Cabo for a week? The generosity of the church has been so amazing. And it’s not just this year; it’s been like that since day one. The church has been amazingly supportive. It really is the best scenario that we can possibly be in.

One thing I might throw in, but in comparison to the support we’ve already received, this is a minor thing. I would caution the members about expectations. Expectations destroy relationships, especially unfair expectations. Christine and I know I’m not John Kim and she’s not Angela Kim. Those are tremendous shoes to fill. One thing I’m thankful for is God led them to this point too. They didn’t always have the insight that they have now; they started at a certain point too. And it is going to take a little bit of patience. We have a very seasoned pastor in Pastor John, a very experienced pastor, just a brilliant communicator. He’s a really good pastor! And I think a lot of people might be here just for John. And that is the inevitable thing: when John leaves, I’m not John. I’ve been trained by him, but I’m not him. We’re going to have different styles, different weaknesses and strengths. Some people might enjoy the changes, and for others it might take some getting used to.

Beware of those expectations. It’s like that in any relationship. In marriage, if you have unfair expectations for your spouse, it’s going to be a disappointing relationship, but if you understand that anything you get out of it is grace, then it makes the relationship so much more meaningful.

Any last words?

One thing I would like to see in the upcoming months is for the church to rally together, and really stand behind this church plant. I couldn’t think of any other way to encourage John and the church plant more than for the home church to be completely onboard, excited and supportive. And I think a lot of it will come down to the way we present it, to help people remember that this is an offshoot of our Biblical way of ministry. We’re not doing it for the sake of doing it; we’re doing it because we’re committed to certain principles Scripturally. If you’re passionate about Scripture, there’s no reason you shouldn’t be passionate about this plant. It’s doing God’s work God’s way. People might question the timing of it, the wisdom of it, or whatever. To that, I would just say, when is it ever going to be convenient? I’m so thankful for the team that’s going. Pastor John recently asked us as leadership, why do you support this church plant? And my answer was, “Because I can’t go.” God has made it clear that He wants me to say. And I’ll stay and be as supportive of this church plant as I possibly can be. And I hope that’s the same with other people, that if God has made it clear that they should stay, that they should be as supportive as they possibly can be. That would be sweet to see. It’s like when we first announced it. When we first announced it, we had this great ovation. And I was thinking to myself, “I know we’re excited now, but let’s see if that excitement carries on to the very end.” Because it’s going to have its difficulties.

by Richard Shin

Pastor Patrick graciously allowed me to invite myself over to his place. As we sat in his living room, he talked very honestly about his thoughts on his ordination, the mutual love between him and the church, and his future role as Senior Pastor of Lighthouse Bible Church. The text does not do justice to the amount of personality he showed during the interview. I hope that, as you read it, you would imagine Pastor Patrick saying these things. And through it all, I really hope you will come to understand him more as he assumes a greater responsibility in the coming months. At the same time, I hope you also come to understand that we worship the much gracious and loving God who grants him that responsibility.

Can you tell us who you are, and what your role is?

My name is Patrick Cho. I am currently an Associate Pastor at Lighthouse Bible Church, but this summer when the San Jose church plant team leaves with Pastor John, I will be stepping in as Senior Pastor.

How do you feel? Are you scared?

People ask me this a lot. My response is almost always the same. I don’t think “scared” is the best word. I’m not scared because obviously I know God is in control. And actually given the situation, it actually breeds a lot more confidence. The church was planted ten years ago, and we’re still here. And just to have seen God’s faithfulness in the past ten years, it makes you wonder, “Is He just going to abandon us now? Did He bring us this far just to leave us?” No. It’s hard for me to accept that. As God has walked with us, we trust that He will continue to walk with us. I’m not saying it’s going to be easy; I’m sure it’s going to be challenging. I’m sure I don’t even know half of what I’ll experience, even in the near future. But I’m not scared. No. I think more than anything, I just recognize that I need to be dependent. And I think that’s one very important perspective.

What are some fears you have to trust God with?

Well, there are all sorts of unknowns. For instance, when the church plant leaves, what if the San Diego church dwindles down to like ten people? You can’t really get caught up with the what-ifs because all sorts of stuff could happen. A storm could come through, and a tree could fall on our church building. Or I die (chuckle). All sorts of different things could happen. Again, I just look at the pattern of ministry that we’ve had the past ten years. Even though there’s a good group of people leaving for San Jose, the majority of the church is still staying. And I think the spiritual atmosphere has been pretty consistent over the years. We’ve had a lot of members who just love the Lord and want to grow in His Word and want to serve and help. Personally, I think we have one of the most generous congregations in the world. Because of that, I don’t get too worried about all the crazy what-ifs. Like I said, I’m just confident that God has led us this far, and He will continue to lead us. Personally I’m a firm believer that God stands for those who stand for Him. Deciding to go plant the church in San Jose is not the “easier” road. We’re taking the more difficult road. Because of that, I think God will bless it.

Throughout the ordination process, and just your overall ministry at church, you and your family had to go through a lot, I’m sure. What has been a significant concern or challenge so far? And significant blessing, if different?

Over the past ten years, John and I have spent so much time together. It really has come to the point where I can finish his sentences. And we have a good sense of how we feel and what we’re going through and what’s bothering us; we have a good read for each other. I’ve just been so thankful for all the training I’ve received on the way. I think one of the things that Christine and I talked about is that once John leaves for the church plant, Angela’s going to be leaving too. That’s been something we’ve been wondering what it’ll be like. She does so much to help the ladies of the church. Christine and Ange, although they do spend a lot of time together, it’s nowhere near the time John and I spend together. And I think that will be challenging. For both of us, we’ll have big shoes to fill. One thing I’m thankful for is that it’s not our job to live up to them. Our job is to do our best with what God has given us and how God has gifted us. I’m not John Kim and Christine’s not Angela Kim. And hopefully we won’t be expected to be. I’m sure in some ways when John leaves, certain things will change. We’re different people with different styles and different focuses, different drives, different passions. It’s not going to be the “same as always”.

To answer that question, some things are going to change and people typically don’t like change. That’s why we’ve been warning the church to brace itself. It’s going to be a changing year. There’s going to be a lot of change coming this year. That’s what happens when thirty people up and leave with two-thirds of the pastoral staff. That’s just the way it’s going to be.

One blessing is, while I always knew ordination was kind of there, and I always knew at some point I would have to go through it, but I was hoping to go through life being able to avoid it. Maybe Jesus would come back or something. It’s kind of like graduating seminary. When I graduated seminary, I thought, “Wow, how did I just do that?” That’s crazy. What an accomplishment, not for myself, but to see God lead me through that. I remember feeling so much joy. He didn’t have to, you know? He didn’t need me. And to have graduated with a bit of success too is really reassuring for me. And the same thing with ordination; I told John, I don’t want to just pass. If I’m going to study for it, I’m going to do well. It actually puts a little bit more pressure on me. I don’t want to just get by. I want to put my best effort into it. When it was all over, I just remember thinking, “Wow, He did it again!” God helped me through it again. I mean… I really have no reason to doubt. I have no reason to think God’s going to just leave us. He’s just been so amazingly faithful and gracious to us. It’s been great.

What doctrine or particular passage from the Bible has been encouraging you the most in your endeavor to be ordained and eventually lead Lighthouse?

Sure, sure… Actually, this one’s kind of easy. I’ve always drawn the analogy of Moses and Joshua and John and myself. Not to say that we’re of that spiritual caliber, but the circumstances are very similar. Kind of like what I shared during the ordination service. Both are of significant change, a transition of leadership, tremendous responsibility. There are a lot of parallels between the two. And if you look at Joshua and his character, he had sometimes an imbalanced sense of loyalty for Moses, and sometimes I think just the fact that I’m young, that comes across too. I’ll speak before I should, and I’ll come to John’s defense, like “how dare anyone say anything bad about John?” kind of thing. I see a lot of that parallel just to see how Moses trained up Joshua and trusted him with leadership and all of that.

And a significant chapter is Joshua 1 where the Lord tells Joshua, (paraphrasing) “be strong and courageous as I have been with my servant Moses, so I’ll be with you.” John has been such a big source of comfort to me. John and I serve the same God who shows the same faithfulness, who provided for John all these years for all that he went through. The same God that carried Him through all of that is the same God who keeps me. And I told him that there will probably be times when I’m very tempted to call him and get all the answers from him. But there’s a side of me that wants to just trust and wait and see how God will teach me through particular circumstances too, in the same way that He taught John. And who knows? Maybe He will teach me some completely different lessons through very similar circumstances. But I’m excited to see what that will be. I’m glad to have a lifeline; I really am. I’m sure I’ll make use of it. It probably won’t be the case where I’m calling him every day asking, “What do I do now? What do I do now? What do I do now?” There’s a sense where I just need to trust in God who leads me, the same Spirit indwells us, and the same Christ saved us. It’s just amazing to think it really does help build a lot of confidence. That’s why I said, I’m not scared. Even though it is a formidable task, I’m not scared.

What is the most valuable lesson you’ve learned serving under Pastor John (whether it be through his actions or his speech)?

Yea… In a word, it’s “ministry.” I’ve said this often, and that’s that John has taught me everything I know about ministry. I mean, seminary taught me a lot of principles and theology, but John helped me bridge theology to life. And not only has he taught me that, he has shown me. Just having seen him go through the trials that he has gone through, just seeing him lead his family, just seeing how he’s committed to the church. There are days when he comes before I do, and he stays way later than anybody else. Just the self-sacrifice he puts into the ministry is a huge example for me. So often I would go to our pastoral staff meeting, and they would ask, “how has your week been?” and I would say, “Man, it was tough.” And then he’ll come over the top and I’ll think, “Man, I have no reason to complain. My life is easy in comparison.”

I’ve really appreciated John’s scope and lens, his listening ear. He still treats you like you’re the most important person. He just has this way… that is one huge lesson I’ve learned from him: how to relate to people. That is his strength; that is his forte. Relating to people, helping them, and challenging them to live according to Biblical standards, according to Biblical principles. For me, I love teaching the Word. While I do consider myself a people person, I just don’t have that wealth of experience that John has, counseling people and all of that. I’ve learned so much along the way.

There would be times I would sit through counseling sessions, and I’m thinking, “He’s going to tear this person apart!” And then he’s totally gracious. And there are other times I think he’s going to say one thing, and then he goes a completely different direction. I mean, he’s not perfect. But I would say as often as I’ve seen him, the direction he has steered counseling sessions have been the wise directions. Where I might react too quickly with anger, he has shown patience and forbearance. And where I might have shown too much leniency in certain cases, he has been direct. And I’ve been really thankful having seen that over the years. I don’t have all the discernment yet to be able to distinguish between the two [situations], but he has really taught me many of the signs to look for, just really helped me in terms of what passages to turn to… oh, there’s so much more…

What would you like to see LBCSD work on? What practical steps do you want us to take as a body?

It’s kind of the same as it has been: a commitment to the MVP and a commitment to the Peacemaker Pledge. I think so long as we’re committed to that, we’ll be okay. It has been that way since day one. If anything were to be a significant threat to the church, it’s going to be the members’ unwillingness to resolve things in a God-glorifying way.

I would like to see a greater commitment to that one-body principle. I would love to see at church on Sunday where no one feels left out, where no one feels like an outsider. And that’s something that everybody needs to work on. It means not gravitating towards people you’re comfortable with. It’s reaching out and (God-forbid!) talking to new visitors. Not leaving it for the New Visitor Team to do it. It’s something I’ve told the college group too, “You all are the New Visitor Team”. We actually have a team to help facilitate things, but the entire group is the NVT. And all of us need to be making an effort to continue to do that.

And I’m not saying that we don’t. Honestly, I’m really happy with the way things have gone the past ten years. We have a wonderful congregation. And the testimony of those who have come supports that. I’m not just trying to toot our horn or whatever, but people have come and said, “This is one of the most welcoming churches I’ve been to. This is the most loving church I’ve been to.” And that’s funny because we’re so often tagged with being so committed to truth that we don’t love. And I would really challenge anyone who has that opinion to come and visit, and spend a day with our members and tell me we don’t love. Our members are loving. But I think it could be an excel-still-more kind of thing. It’s one of those things that you could always do more. And in ten years from now, if we were still doing that, how awesome would that be.

A thing I would like to see more of at our church is a deliberate outreach mentality. Again, I don’t think we don’t have that. But again, it’s one of those excel-still-more kinds of things where we could do better.

But, you know, it’s all ideal. It would be great to send out a missions team and every member from the greatest to the least of them are on board. And when we come back, and we do our missions report night, every member is there because they felt like they were part of the team. They weren’t just giving a donation, but they were actually part of the sending team, and they’re passionate about what they’re supporting. I’m not sure we’re quite there yet. I think that’s the case for some people, but I’m not sure it’s the case from the greatest to the least of them.

And lastly, we still have a number of members who aren’t doing much. There are members, but they’re kind of the “invisible” members. They’re not serving in any ministry; they’re not serving in any capacity. And I would like to help challenge those members be part of the body, help us function together, help us grow together, as it says in Ephesians 2 to “grow into the holy temple of the Lord.” That would be good. There aren’t a lot of them though. And that’s the thing I’ve been really thankful for, the members at our church. I have only reason to be thankful. I think many pastors would be very envious of our church in San Diego. Not to say we have the perfect church, but we have a lot of reasons to be thankful.

(to be concluded next week with part 2)

by Richard Shin

What is the greatest legacy you would like to leave behind as you depart from San Diego?

I hope that people would have known that I genuinely loved God and loved people; I know I don’t do it perfectly. That I’ve tried to be a sincere gentleman in fulfilling my role as a pastor. And I hope that people would have been challenged to look beyond the status quo. That they be willing to trust God, and that they be willing to have God be front and center of their lives, to the point where they submit family life to that, and church life and school and job, everything. I think Matthew 16:24 is probably a verse that has impressed upon my heart in junior high. And it says if anyone is to come after me, deny himself, pick up his cross, and follow after me. It’s just very clear, that my life now is no longer for myself, but to follow Christ, and that everything in life would revolve around that.

I hope people know that I enjoyed life too. I liked to have fun, but not fun for fun’s sake, but really to celebrate people and their lives. I hope people would know I have genuinely cared for people. I’ve been willing to be part of people’s lives in whatever ways God would have me.

I think I’ve made more than my share of mistakes. I hope people would be forgiving toward that, as well as all the long, long sermons. That’s one thing people will probably remember me for, more than anything. I hope it’s not just the length of the sermon, but it’s the heart and principle of the sermon that would be left behind.

What will you miss most about LBCSD? And San Diego in general?

Well, the people for sure. I really love our church family. We’ve developed such precious friendships with many people. Those are things you just can’t trade. I will miss those especially who have ministered to our family. I know our kids will miss all the other kids, especially all their cousins. Yeah… definitely the people. There are other things I can live without, even things like Mexican food and stuff like that. But the people really… having seen the church grow, and coming into this office, and having all the books there, those are all things I’m really thankful for, but more than anything, it’s the people that I would miss the most. I’m already sad thinking that I’ll miss out on seeing the kids growing up. I love watching all the kids. I love playing with them and making faces at them. I’m kind of sad because none of them will probably remember me, but I’m sure I’ll have the chance to visit time to time, and I’m sure people will visit. But it won’t be the same. That’s something I learned when you move to a different place. Things just aren’t the same. I’ll definitely miss a lot of the people. But I hope to carry on the friendships to the future too.

Let’s say you stepped into the building of LBCSD ten years from now, what would you like to see?

Oh, boy… I would like to see everyone here ten years older. But ten years even more mature in their faith. I would like to see the families providing the backbone of the church in terms of leadership and just spreading themselves among the congregation from anywhere between preschool to youth to college. That’s one thing I really appreciated about growing up at Grace Church, all the parents after their kids have grown up, that they would really get involved in the life of the church. I know at this stage, it’s hard but maybe ten years from now when the kids have grown up, and parents are a little more flexible in terms of what they can do, and I hope they’ll really maximize their investments in people. I really hope to see Titus 2 really fulfilled where the older men and women are really teaching the younger men and women and discipling them, mentoring them. I hope the church would just continue to grow, and do things for the community and the world in terms of missions. Maybe we would even partner in those things along the way in some degree.

I hope in ten years the church would have still remained faithful to the MVP. Hopefully that’s not going to change. Hopefully with all the challenges and tests and trials that have come, that the Peacemaker’s Pledge would have been upheld. Hopefully those things that we see as the pillars of the church, they would stand true. Hopefully in ten years, we would be able to come back and see that we planted more churches.

What would be one last thought, morsel of truth, or wisdom that you would like to leave LBC with?

Oh, wow… Trying to think of one… I would say be patient with people. Everyone’s in the process of growing and learning. We can’t compare one person’s growth to another. Some people grow at a quicker rate than others, who might take a longer time. Just to be patient, really applying 1 Corinthians 13. Love is patient, love is kind… when we studied that earlier last year with the singles, I think that was something that was really pressed upon my heart, that I like to think I’m patient and kind, but when I realize how easy it is to be impatient and unkind towards people, even people that are close to me. Just be patient because God is the one who’s molding people, and teaching people. Remember that the Holy Spirit is the one who is changing people’s hearts; we can’t manipulate people’s hearts to change. We’re not the Holy Spirit’s Assistant. We don’t have the ability to just do that, but we have opportunity to love people, and teach them and we can’t force change. Just really be patient with people, and love people like Christ loved us. Be faithful to God’s Word. And I think that’s what people have always known that that’s something we’ve always stood for, and I won’t take that for granted because the church has changed over time. Sometimes people lose sight of what our original foundations were about, but that’s why I’m glad Pastor Patrick will be here and the elders will be here. Hopefully those foundations will be strengthened and continually reaffirmed. Hopefully people will not lose sight of holding fast to the truth, even when it becomes unpopular.

What do you see yourself doing in ten years? In twenty years?

Well, hopefully I’ll still be alive. Hopefully I’ll still be walking. I do hope to see us planting more churches; I don’t know what my role will be for that. I think part of me thinks maybe that my role could become more a resource-sort of role, to help raise and support and train up guys who would lead the church plants and provide support. So maybe within ten or twenty years, that’s what my role could be. In some regard, still having a home base somewhere, but maybe I can do something like that. Ten to twenty years, hopefully all my girls will be married and have kids, and Angela and I can be grandparents and have fun with them. But I don’t think Angela and I will ever just sit around and get lazy doing nothing. I think we’ll always want to be doing ministry. So when all the kids are out of the house, maybe that’ll be our time to do missions work abroad. So maybe she and I can be committed to encouraging and supporting and helping some of the churches we’re working with now in Argentina and Czech Republic. Who knows?

How can we as a congregation encourage you? And how can we pray for you?

I think the best way to encourage me would be to keep growing, and to really keep teachable in terms of learning God’s truth, to be really available to be useful for God’s kingdom. I think when Paul says the greatest joy is when he saw the churches growing. You can pray for me to not lose sight of the big picture. Not to get frustrated with details, maybe not working out the way I anticipate, but trusting God with those things. One thing for sure is to pray for our family; it’s possibly Jenna’s last year with us as a family as she thinks about college. That’s one thing I resolved this year to do, just spend more time with Angela and the girls, in spite of all the changes ahead of us, and not to use that as an excuse. Pray for me to stay positive and be encouraging to others. I tend to dwell on problems, and sometimes I can get negative-minded just dealing with all the problems. I just want to be focusing on being thankful and just encouraging people. Other than that, it would be encouraging to hear from people how they’re learning, and how they’re growing. I don’t know, so don’t assume I know.

to be continued next week with Pastor Patrick…

by Richard Shin

Pastor John and I met within the confines of his office. As someone who hears him preach on a semi-weekly basis, and given his openness during his messages, I thought I had him figured out for the most part. But after having gone through this interview with him, I realized there is much more to Pastor John Kim than what he reveals on the pulpit. I hope this interview will motivate you to talk to him, get to know him, and squeeze every bit of wisdom from the man as you possibly can before he leaves. Within reason, of course.

What is your role in the San Jose church plant?

My role for the San Jose church plant is to be the senior pastor and pretty much the point person to help provide leadership and direction and hopefully encourage everybody and shepherd everybody along the way as we get going.

What has been a significant challenge or concern so far? And a significant blessing, if different?

Probably one of the more significant challenges that seem to affect people is the practical considerations. Trying to relocate, find a new job, sell your home… all those things in this economy especially is raising concerns among parents, questioning, is this the right time? Understandably, there’s a lot of difficulty having to handle the practical side of things. So, I know the people have been wrestling with that, having just the reality of making a major move. That too has been difficult for a lot of people, even for us, having to sell our home, and to anticipate uprooting our family. On the practical end, that has probably been a significant challenge.

At the same time, it’s a blessing. We’re seeing that people are willing to live out Matthew 6:33: “seek first His kingdom and His righteousness”. To really see the point of planting a church to be actually something that would guide one’s life direction as opposed to work or school. I think a lot of people don’t realize how much they let the worldly elements of life to dictate their life, not to say that it’s all evil and bad, but sometimes people don’t realize how much they need God to accommodate their agenda as opposed to saying we need to follow God’s agenda, and orient everything around that, whether it be school, work or even buying a home.

I think that’s what’s been most encouraging to see, the commitment of the people who have been willing to act on that, especially the younger group of people. Some of them have never been to San Jose; for them it’s a huge step of faith. Initially I think I was a little disappointed because I thought maybe more of the older members might be considering going. Understandably, it’s difficult when you’ve got a young family, and you still got young kids. I think I’ve come to understand that God has to be the one who moves people’s hearts to go and God is also going to be responsible for people staying. He has a purpose in it all. So I think I’m okay with that now.

That played into something too. I thought, “Is our team young?” It would be helpful to have mature, older, more experienced people and I think that is definitely something that is important. But I think on the other end, having younger people also bring a lot of enthusiasm and a lot of energy. And I think because they’re willing to take some risks too, it does definitely lend itself toward giving a very positive outlook for what we hope to see happen.

What are you looking forward to for the church plant?

I’m looking forward to just being able to spend time with people a lot more again. As our church got bigger here, my role had to adjust because the dynamics aren’t the same. I’m not complaining about that or anything; I’m very grateful that our church has grown. But I think I particularly enjoy interacting with people a lot more. I’m looking forward to just developing things from the beginning again. And some people think that’s the hard part of it. But I think it’s the more enjoyable part, being able to interact with the majority of the group and getting to know everyone on a first name basis and actually remembering who they are. And just to be more involved in their lives on a more personal level. I miss that. That aspect, as the church gets bigger, it’s just impossible to maintain that kind of relationship with everybody. So the developmental stage I think I really enjoy.

I’m also looking forward to getting to know people in the community. Being evangelistic, hoping to just let everyone who comes know that they are welcome and that we would love to get to know them, and hopefully seeing people come to know Christ. Having that be a more distinguishing mark than just transfer growth.

What are some fears you need to trust God with both for LBCSD and LBCSJ?

For San Jose, there are just practical concerns like, “Will we have money?”, “Will we have resources?”, and “Will we have a place to meet?” I think a lot of basic things because we don’t know what to expect. Will we be able to build a relationship with the church community at large? That’s a very important thing, that we’re not just there to do our own thing, but to partner and build relationships. That’s something I wish we could have seen happen more here.

Another fear is the realities of church. Conflicts, disappointments…that’s just a part of life. That’s something you don’t look forward to. I think especially when it involves people you become close with. The relational side is what carries the most weight for me both in terms of what I look forward to and what do I fear. Like betrayal. That’s already happened several times; it’s something painful to go through. While I hope those things don’t happen, unfortunately they do. But we know God is in control even in those things to shape the church and to help us trust Him more.

On the San Diego side, there’s going to be a lot of transition and adjustment. I’m concerned most for how people will treat Pastor Patrick. I hope they would be respectful and that they would not look down on the fact that he’s younger, but I hope that they can see the pattern of his faithfulness already since the church has started. And that they wouldn’t do any comparing. I think in a lot of ways Pastor Patrick has a lot of gifts and talents that I don’t. He has a lot to offer, and I think he’s shown his faithfulness to the church. I hope people will look at that as opposed to age or experience. Those things are just not fair to compare with someone who has been doing it for like twenty years.

And then for people to not place their hopes on people. The church doesn’t depend on me and so my leaving shouldn’t dictate how the church does. I know there will be practical facts because of relationships and all, but I hope people can just trust God and do their part in filling the gaps and whatever void they think might have been created. Not only with my family leaving, but others leaving. I hope it will lead to people stepping up, instead of people just complaining or moaning and groaning why things are the way they are. Hopefully people will not resort to being negative about all the change. It’ll be hard; it’ll be a challenging. Hopefully it’ll cause people to trust God more, and hopefully they’ll step up.

How do you feel about leaving Pastor Patrick? And how do you feel about taking JR?

I think we shared this at members meeting and at the ordination service. There’s no one else I would trust than Pastor Patrick. He has shown himself to be the most loyal and faithful partner in ministry that I’ve ever had. And that hasn’t come easy. I know he has had to put up with a lot with all my idiosyncrasies and differences, just the way he is. And I’ve been tough on him. And at times, I’ve probably made him cry. But he’s persevered. He’s teachable. He has shown me his willingness to work hard. And his willingness to do anything I’ve asked him to do from pastoral duties to simple things like cleaning up to running missions trips to even stepping in during my leave of absence and to run things and see what it’s like. I’m very confident that he’s going to do a great job. I’m honestly saying that; I’m not just saying that to get people psyched up.

I know Patrick will have his set of struggles, and he’ll have to adjust to being the senior pastor. That just has its own set of challenges that he’ll have to go through. But I hope people would know that he has definitely proven himself over the years. I can honestly say that he has shown himself to be a true friend and partner in ministry and he’s probably the one who has kept me sane over the years because he has made me laugh. Sometimes he would just be silly and help me not be serious about all these things. I’m confident that he’ll do a good job. Hopefully people would be patient with him too, give him room to adjust, and be himself.

Taking JR… I have mixed feelings about it. Personally I’m thankful. At the same time I know it takes a hit for the church because I know he’s been doing such a great job with the youth ministry. And I know the kids love him here. My kids love him too. So we’re fortunate to get him to continue on with us. JR’s heart has been with church plants. When we prayed whether he should be part of the plant or not, honestly I thought he should stay because I thought he could help Patrick. But he told me he fasted and prayed for over a month, and he prayed and trusted that it’s God’s direction for him to go. So, what can I say to that?

I know things don’t always go in the way of conventional thinking. I know that because that’s the way I look at a lot of things myself too. I couldn’t just say that’s not conventionally right or the best thing to do. At the same time I’m definitely thankful that he could come as a ministry partner would be helpful. JR has done a great job pastoring the youth, and not only that, he’s done a great job in developing in his preaching and he’s really grown in his ministry skills and I think it would be good to just have someone who I can count on to be there in case I get sick which happens often or be able to fill in on various ways and for Kathy to come with him. I know it’s going to be a challenge for the church as well to have two of the three pastors leaving.

What are some more encouraging words that you have heard regarding the church plant?

Some of the older folk have come up to me and told me that they are challenged that at this stage of life that we’re willing to do this. I think Angela and I imagined ourselves living in San Diego and just watching the kids grow up and enjoying the nice weather after leaving the east coast where it was cold, appreciating the warm weather more… As God has lain on our hearts to do this, we don’t want to make excuses because of “stage of life” issues. There are those who have been encouraged to not use “stage of life” excuses, and that’s been encouraging to hear.

Others have been encouraging to reaffirm our commitment to church planting. Especially the ones from northern California, they’re thankful that we’re going up there. But I think more than just going up there, they’ve learned a lot and grown here. It’s not just for the sake of having a church, but they want to show what they’ve learned here and have a place where family and friends they can share the gospel with and also bring them out to church. It has been encouraging to see the responses of people looking forward to see what’s going to happen up there.

Even some of the pastors up there have been very encouraging and receptive to partnering, at least developing friendships. When I came to San Diego, it wasn’t like that. No one wanted to be my friend. Churches were not very nice. That’s kind of nice to look forward to, pastors saying, “Yes, we need more churches planted!” In fact one pastor has said he’s willing to offer whatever support he could. When I came to San Diego, there were people actively opposing the church plant. It’s kind of strange. We thought we would encounter opposition from non-Christians, but we encountered more opposition from other Christians. So in San Diego, that was kind of a big difference. So that’s been an encouraging response from people too.

Do you ever have second thoughts? And if so, for what reasons? If not, what thought or conviction helps you stay determined?

I always wonder if I’ve made the right decisions because I don’t know at the time. There’s no 100% guarantee in everything, but I’m just trusting in God. I think one sure thing is trust God, and know that He will work everything out for good. I think I’m learning more and more through the Scriptures that God’s sovereignty really is something we can find comfort in. We can’t forecast or guarantee anything we do in life. Even from a human vantage point, we try to do all our homework and evaluate everything, and maybe make the best decision we think possible, but even then that’s no guarantee that it’s God’s will. I think trusting God is the one thing that keeps me hopeful.

But yeah, sometimes I wonder if we should have sold our house, should we start all over again? Some people say things like, you’re getting older now… why don’t you let the younger guys do it? And sometimes I think, yea, maybe that would be good because I’m tired, my health has not been as good. So sometimes is it the stress of doing these kinds of things that is getting to me more? I think just trying to get re-established all over again for everything, not having relatives close by… that’s the kind of things that come to mind, is this the best thing to do?

But I think about the long term picture, and I ask, what are we living for? We are not living for our own comforts. We’re not living to have our needs met, or have things convenient for us. Are we really considering Matthew 6:33? Is it really our heart’s desire? At a human level, it’s hard. But we trust God’s Word to be true, and that is actually what’s worth living for. And then we strive for that. And we know God will sustain us. But yea, sometimes it’s hard… especially when I think about Mexican food and Evangelical (the bookstore) and my friends there.

Will you be the only on-site elder? And should we be concerned?

Initially in principle, yea. But we already have in place what we call an “Administrative Team”. It’s kind of how we started things here as well, and that we would work together with the team in terms of making decisions. This is not a dictatorship. Yes, I think I need to provide leadership, but at the same time work as a team. There are already certain kinds of things we’re talking through, and having checks and balances for decision-making issues so that it’s not completely just my will being imposed on everybody. At the same time, I would hope that God would use me to provide clear leadership and direction, but not at the expense of just simply imposing my own will. I’ve always been a team guy; I don’t think I’m the guy that’s supposed to make all the calls for everything. But at the same time I’m in a position to teach and equip and challenge people. In good time, our goal would be to appoint elders who would fulfill the qualifications, and we hope to do that very early on in the life of the church.

to be continued…